'The Gay Revolution: The Story of the Struggle' Book Talk: "Question and Answer: Part 4 of 16", Lillian Faderman, 2015/10/18
[caption: Lillian Faderman Historian & Author of The Gay Revolution Q & A 4]
Audience member: I was wondering, given what you just said, did you speculate in the book, or could you speculate now about why this changed this way?
Faderman: Yes, thank you. So I didn’t get to the end of my answer, and that is that I wanted to figure that out–how we got from being criminals and crazies and sinners and subversives to the position that we’re in today. And I think the answer is very complex. There were a lot of victories, but a lot of disasters too. There were a lot of ups and downs. We really had to learn how to fight in order to get to where we are today. We had to learn how to fight–I won’t even say together, but sort of like as Booker T. Washington said–sort of like the fingers of a hand, separate but still, still working in concert. And I think that’s what we did with the gay male community. And I think that’s what brought us to our present position–that somehow we figured that, if we didn’t work in concert, we wouldn’t have enough numbers and enough strength to get to our present position.
But I think other things happened too. And one thing was dependent on something else, which was dependent on something before and dependent on something before that too. For instance, Joe Biden said–because he doesn’t know the extent of our history–he said when he was interviewed on–was it Washington Week? I don’t think that was it, but some major TV news program–he was talking about how he was in favor of gay marriage. This was shortly before President Obama came out in favor of gay marriage. And he said that Will & Grace has done more to change the minds of America.
Well, Will & Grace wouldn’t have existed if Ellen hadn’t existed before Will & Grace, and Ellen probably wouldn’t have existed if the National Gay Task Force in 1974 hadn’t formed a Media Committee that went to NBC and other network stations and said, “We’re tired of the way you present homosexuals. We demand that you present us more fairly, show positive images of us, don’t present us as child molesters” as they were doing. NBC had a program called Marcus Welby, M.D. in which they had a segment about a high school–junior high school–science teacher who molests his 14-year-old male science student. And that was the trigger for the National Gay Task Force Media Committee to object to the networks.
So they objected to the networks; slowly the networks got better. It took a chance with a program like Ellen and Ellen coming out, kissing Laura Dern, you remember, in that famous kiss. That made Will & Grace possible, and Will & Grace made things like Modern Family and Glee and The New Normal possible, so one–I’m sorry, what were you saying? Yes, yes, The Fosters, right. There have been so many programs like that, but that would not have happened if it hadn’t been for the National Gay Task Force in 1974 getting the ball rolling.
So, I think one thing that did change was the media presentation of us; that changed. And young people have grown up with the media. When Obama first became–was first elected president–in 2008, only 40% of the population said that they favored same-sex marriage. By 2011 a lot of people who were not of voting age in 2008 had come of age. 70% of the youngest demographic–kids, young people between 18 and 25–said they favored same-sex marriage. And so President Obama realized that it was safe to come out in favor of same-sex marriage. So I think young people have made a huge difference.
But probably the biggest difference is that more and more of us have come out. I don’t want to throw too many statistics at you, but just one other, and that is that in 1993, 20, only 22% of the population of those polled said that they had a close friend or relative who was lesbian or gay. In 2012, three times that number said they had a close friend or relative who was lesbian or gay. And when you don’t know any people who are lesbian or who are gay, they’re those strangers lurking in the shadow. They’re those dangerous people. When they’re your sisters and your brothers and your aunts and your uncles and your sons and your daughters, it’s a little harder to villainize them. And so I think that that’s made a huge difference in America’s attitude towards us.
[END OF VIDEO]
Interviewee: Lillian Faderman
Interviewer: Audience member
Transcriber: Janice C.
Formatter: Serena R.
Recording Date: October 18, 2015
Release Date: October 25, 2015
Location: City Council Chambers in West Hollywood, California
Interview Length: 00:05:51